I get frustrated sometimes.
I am part of a group of youth ministers from all over the country that engages in "conversations" about things going on - the best camps, ideas for meetings and games, working through Bible studies together, coming up with graphics and publications, etc...
I generally remain quiet because, unfortunately, our theologies differ SO very much. The moderators of the group are of a certain bent that they will delete things that they don't agree with. I hem and haw about leaving the group, but I find that there is a good amount of collaboration and while I don't use a lot that I hear from them, I find it interesting to learn what other ministries are doing...
But this morning... well, this morning things are going nuts on the forum. This happens every once in a while - someone frames a question in such a way that it gets every one riled up because not everyone agrees that women can't teach men.
(Why this group even allows women to join, I'm not sure, because they clearly don't agree with us in ministry... though I've learned it's assumed, apparently, that the women in the group are youth pastor's wives, but they've now created a group just for YP wives that they're supposed to go join.... Some of us then asked about youth pastor husbands... we haven't been answered....)
So the conversations this morning are about women not teaching men, and there are some guys ARDENTLY arguing that 2 Timothy could not possibly be wrong or situational or written in a particular context. Then there is a group arguing to kick someone out of leadership for an indiscretion they have sought out forgiveness for... but apparently, this indiscretion isn't covered by grace - though consequences have already been dealt and gone through...
And then my mind goes to the questions we have - why does it seem like so many churches are struggling, and why some churches seem to be growing by leaps and bounds... and these churches are churches that teach dangerous theologies!!!! Theologies that exclude and, and theologies that suppress, and theologies that pit God against the world. And I have problems with that... why are churches that are struggling through practicing grace struggling, but churches that seem to have little grace are growing....
Here's my thoughts:
It's easy to have a faith that is black and white, and we live in a world where so much is gray, that one place of black and white is welcome. But then, also, much like the rest of the world, everything is about opposition. Apparently we all have to have an issue to rebuke. We all have to have a stance on everything and we cannot engage in conversation or practice grace because if you don't agree with me, we can't talk and we certainly can't work together.
For churches of theologies that are more towards center (I'm not even going to the liberal theologies, I'm just talking moderate), it is hard - because there is no line to define the church. These are the churches that look back at the Bible and realize it's not easy...
The Bible was written in the midst of struggle - they were trying to figure out their theologies, their beliefs, their understanding of Jesus' life - but as I told someone this morning, at the time, Jesus was an unremarkable man for the first 30 years of his life. 5 people had been visited by angels (Mary/Joseph/Shepherds) and knew, from God, that Jesus was the son of God. But the rest of the world had 30 years to wonder about this kid running around, apprenticing Joseph, sitting in the temple (and if you read the apocrypha, killing a kid for making him mad, and then bringing him back to life)... what kid doesn't say something profound every once in a while? What kid doesn't run around or get left behind sometimes?
And let's be honest - if some random 5 people said the things Mary and Joseph did, we'd probably think they were crazy, trying to start a cult, or just had everything wrong (potentially as emotionally disturbed persons)... People had no idea what was going on.
So we have letters - one way letters - we don't know what prompted them, and we try to reconstruct situations and contexts based on the contents of a letter - but all we have is one side of the conversation. We gather pieces of evidence to hopefully understand...
But they were just as confused then as we are now. We can read Paul's letters as his theology changes, but some people hold on to Paul's words as much as they do the words recorded from Jesus' mouth.
It is easy to read something from the Bible and call it all Gospel, than to really take it to task and realize that the Bible shows us peoples' growth and changes - it shows us the struggles they had, too.
I mean, really, if people read things I wrote years ago, my theology and understanding of God were so different.
And I'm not saying I have all the answers - faith just brings more questions, but that's why it's faith. God doesn't have to answer my questions, but I hope some day, God's mercy puts me out of my misery!!!!! ;-)
I just seem to be realizing that it is so much easy to just condemn people because some words say so, without taking into consideration that (especially the letters) were written by a particular person to a particular audience. Were Paul and Timothy writing and knowing that forever we were going to hold on to their words? NO! They were writing to the church in Corinth, the church in Ephesus... They weren't writing to us almost 2000 years later -
Jesus, however, was more "these are the things you need to remember... LOVE one another and I first loved you," "love your neighbor AS YOURSELF," "For God so LOVED the world...", and "may the one without sin cast the first stone..."
Too often we forget the words of Jesus for the words that come from everywhere else.
Sure, we can glean insight from them - but sometimes that insight is that they struggled, too, and perhaps we can find comfort in them. One and two generations out from Jesus did not have all the answers, and we have to remember that we will never have the answer...
But we are supposed to walk in GRACE. We are supposed to walk in LOVE. And that is not easy. It's not easy at all. It's messy. People who say faith is easy or seem to have all the answers, probably don't.
And let's be honest, the road Jesus walked was not easy either. People had no idea what he was doing and what he was talking about, but we come back to his point over and over again: LOVE. Grace for the outcast. Welcoming arms. Reaching out.
It's so much more comfortable to close people out. To walk into the church on Sunday and close the doors.
That's not what Jesus did. Jesus overturned the tables in the temple. Jesus preached on the mountain side. Jesus sat down and said "Let the children come to me." Jesus fed people even when it seemed there wasn't enough.
So why are we spending our time arguing about women in ministry, and trying to convince people to not forgive someone... why are we wasting time and resources on discussing the inappropriateness of playing games at youth group (or certain games), or the fact that some movies/books/shows don't glorify God (let's be honest, God probably laughs at EVERYTHING that's on tv, not one show or movie more than others)...
Let's walk the messy road - the road of loving our neighbor - the road of reaching out - the road of grace...
I am part of a group of youth ministers from all over the country that engages in "conversations" about things going on - the best camps, ideas for meetings and games, working through Bible studies together, coming up with graphics and publications, etc...
I generally remain quiet because, unfortunately, our theologies differ SO very much. The moderators of the group are of a certain bent that they will delete things that they don't agree with. I hem and haw about leaving the group, but I find that there is a good amount of collaboration and while I don't use a lot that I hear from them, I find it interesting to learn what other ministries are doing...
But this morning... well, this morning things are going nuts on the forum. This happens every once in a while - someone frames a question in such a way that it gets every one riled up because not everyone agrees that women can't teach men.
(Why this group even allows women to join, I'm not sure, because they clearly don't agree with us in ministry... though I've learned it's assumed, apparently, that the women in the group are youth pastor's wives, but they've now created a group just for YP wives that they're supposed to go join.... Some of us then asked about youth pastor husbands... we haven't been answered....)
So the conversations this morning are about women not teaching men, and there are some guys ARDENTLY arguing that 2 Timothy could not possibly be wrong or situational or written in a particular context. Then there is a group arguing to kick someone out of leadership for an indiscretion they have sought out forgiveness for... but apparently, this indiscretion isn't covered by grace - though consequences have already been dealt and gone through...
And then my mind goes to the questions we have - why does it seem like so many churches are struggling, and why some churches seem to be growing by leaps and bounds... and these churches are churches that teach dangerous theologies!!!! Theologies that exclude and, and theologies that suppress, and theologies that pit God against the world. And I have problems with that... why are churches that are struggling through practicing grace struggling, but churches that seem to have little grace are growing....
Here's my thoughts:
It's easy to have a faith that is black and white, and we live in a world where so much is gray, that one place of black and white is welcome. But then, also, much like the rest of the world, everything is about opposition. Apparently we all have to have an issue to rebuke. We all have to have a stance on everything and we cannot engage in conversation or practice grace because if you don't agree with me, we can't talk and we certainly can't work together.
For churches of theologies that are more towards center (I'm not even going to the liberal theologies, I'm just talking moderate), it is hard - because there is no line to define the church. These are the churches that look back at the Bible and realize it's not easy...
The Bible was written in the midst of struggle - they were trying to figure out their theologies, their beliefs, their understanding of Jesus' life - but as I told someone this morning, at the time, Jesus was an unremarkable man for the first 30 years of his life. 5 people had been visited by angels (Mary/Joseph/Shepherds) and knew, from God, that Jesus was the son of God. But the rest of the world had 30 years to wonder about this kid running around, apprenticing Joseph, sitting in the temple (and if you read the apocrypha, killing a kid for making him mad, and then bringing him back to life)... what kid doesn't say something profound every once in a while? What kid doesn't run around or get left behind sometimes?
And let's be honest - if some random 5 people said the things Mary and Joseph did, we'd probably think they were crazy, trying to start a cult, or just had everything wrong (potentially as emotionally disturbed persons)... People had no idea what was going on.
So we have letters - one way letters - we don't know what prompted them, and we try to reconstruct situations and contexts based on the contents of a letter - but all we have is one side of the conversation. We gather pieces of evidence to hopefully understand...
But they were just as confused then as we are now. We can read Paul's letters as his theology changes, but some people hold on to Paul's words as much as they do the words recorded from Jesus' mouth.
It is easy to read something from the Bible and call it all Gospel, than to really take it to task and realize that the Bible shows us peoples' growth and changes - it shows us the struggles they had, too.
I mean, really, if people read things I wrote years ago, my theology and understanding of God were so different.
And I'm not saying I have all the answers - faith just brings more questions, but that's why it's faith. God doesn't have to answer my questions, but I hope some day, God's mercy puts me out of my misery!!!!! ;-)
I just seem to be realizing that it is so much easy to just condemn people because some words say so, without taking into consideration that (especially the letters) were written by a particular person to a particular audience. Were Paul and Timothy writing and knowing that forever we were going to hold on to their words? NO! They were writing to the church in Corinth, the church in Ephesus... They weren't writing to us almost 2000 years later -
Jesus, however, was more "these are the things you need to remember... LOVE one another and I first loved you," "love your neighbor AS YOURSELF," "For God so LOVED the world...", and "may the one without sin cast the first stone..."
Too often we forget the words of Jesus for the words that come from everywhere else.
Sure, we can glean insight from them - but sometimes that insight is that they struggled, too, and perhaps we can find comfort in them. One and two generations out from Jesus did not have all the answers, and we have to remember that we will never have the answer...
But we are supposed to walk in GRACE. We are supposed to walk in LOVE. And that is not easy. It's not easy at all. It's messy. People who say faith is easy or seem to have all the answers, probably don't.
And let's be honest, the road Jesus walked was not easy either. People had no idea what he was doing and what he was talking about, but we come back to his point over and over again: LOVE. Grace for the outcast. Welcoming arms. Reaching out.
It's so much more comfortable to close people out. To walk into the church on Sunday and close the doors.
That's not what Jesus did. Jesus overturned the tables in the temple. Jesus preached on the mountain side. Jesus sat down and said "Let the children come to me." Jesus fed people even when it seemed there wasn't enough.
So why are we spending our time arguing about women in ministry, and trying to convince people to not forgive someone... why are we wasting time and resources on discussing the inappropriateness of playing games at youth group (or certain games), or the fact that some movies/books/shows don't glorify God (let's be honest, God probably laughs at EVERYTHING that's on tv, not one show or movie more than others)...
Let's walk the messy road - the road of loving our neighbor - the road of reaching out - the road of grace...
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